The Upholstery Forum

How can you tell if this machine has a reverse just by pictures? The seller doesn't know anything about the machine? Just a lever on the right base of the unit? It has that.

And is it a good robust machine to learn on?

And one more question. Which would be a better machine to learn on Singer 211w155 or a Pfaff 1245 706/7 ? A small price difference and an hour longer drive to pick up the Pfaff

Yes you can tell it has reverse when there is a lever on the base of the unit. Both of those machines are very nice. The ease of learning will depend on the motor type. A servo motor is the easiest to learn on. You can also buy servo motors that fit any machine for around $200

Looking online the picture of the machine she sent looks more like the Singer 211 G 156?

I could be mistaken, but i thought that the sub class 156 had reverse and not the 155. Either way, 211-155/156 is an excellent machine. I am not familiar with the "706/7" but assuming its just a 1245, the pfaff is a better machine in my opinion, but at the end of the day your finished product will NOT reflect that it was done on a smoother more expensive machine. Both machines are in the same class as far as capabilities. May come down to having reverse or not. Servo would be a huge plus and would make them equally easy to learn on. Really cant go wrong with either.

Thanks Adam. The only concern with the singer is that the seller doesn't know any more about sewing machines than I do? I know one of the recommendations is to see how it sews before buying but unfortunately I'm going to have to stick to John's advice in the pamphlet and video and roll the dice. Is one of these two machines harder to find parts for if it needs to be serviced?

Hi, I maybe in a similar position to you CnC. In that I’m looking to learn. I have just purchased a Singer 211G156 ( I pick it up this weekend) it has a clutch motor. I only paid $200 for it so I’m hoping a bargain. I will let you know how I get on and welcome any help/advice in setting it up.

John

@John G sounds like you did get a bargain, i'll take every one you can find at that price. Get yourself a servo motor and life will be sweet. @CnC, post pictures of the singer if you can, and we'll try and help determine if it is complete. If its complete, turns easily and the timing belt is in descent shape, go for it if the price isn't too bad.

LOL same here. $200 is a steal! Id take one at that price too

Well decided against the Singer and picked up a PFAFF 1245 . Managed to find needles in a kit from 14-22 (10 in each size) but the cost of shipping the #92 Bonded Polyester is kinda crazy. Looking for an Ontario supplier. Any suggestions from fellow Canadians?

Check on line JT’ Outdoor Fabrics in Barrie, Ontario. Great service and they ship fast.

Just wat to send out a quick thanks to you Curtis. JT's will be perfect for supplies.

Thats a great machine you picked! You will love it.
@Revv Up and @BigRig are fantastic resources for Canadian upholstery supply advice. Unfortunately I only am familiar with US supplies and suppliers but I have learned a lot form those two.

Wow, I've already switched out both pulleys on this turbine to change it into something that doesn't feel like its going to suck the material thru and launch it like a ballistic missile. You guys weren't kidding when you said that you need to feather the pedal on these old machines to slow them down. I can now at least manage to make it work. I plan to extend the clutch motors (activation?) bar to give me a little more control. I'll eventually either change it to a servo motor or like the idea of devising a system with reduction pulleys to keep the torque at a maximum level even at super low speeds. It'll eliminate any low speed stalling.

With a decent servo motor and controller you can get the speed down, with the pedal, to ~200 motor RPM. On my machine with stock pulley, that translates to 150 stitches per minute. With a needle position sensor, you can just make a quick stab at the pedal and it will make a single stitch. With the controller, you can limit the maximum speed to ~500 motor RPM. You can drill a hole in the pedal that is 1/4 of the way down the pedal to mount the rod balljoint to; this will decrease pedal sensitivity and give you more control.

Of course, you can set the controller to allow maximum motor speed when you're putting together a boat cover for a cigarette boat ;^).

The downside to a servo motor is trying to multiply the torque and have a NPS. There is a limit to how far you can go and the best approach is to just go with a reduction in the motor pulley diameter. The problem here is that, with a NPS, the controller is looking to get a signal from the NPS within just a couple of motor revolutions. If you go with too much reduction then the motor will turn over too many times before the controller gets its signal. That can lead to either a couple of extra stitches or the controller just shutting the motor off but not parking the needle where you want it.

There's a give and take there. The NPS allows you single-stitch control but limits your ability to multiply torque. A speed reducer will multiply torque and make it easier to single-stitch with pedal control, but will probably eliminate the ability to reliably use a NPS. By reducing the motor pulley diameter you can find a good compromise.

Select a 750W motor and you'll probably have all the torque you need. I have no trouble starting up on a 1/4" leather strap or starting up on a compressed 8-layer Cordura seam, both using a 2.3mm diameter needle.

And how do I come up with an 8-layer Cordura seam, you ask? Poor planning...

So by adding a separate shaft and pulleys (meaning using a 2 belt 4 pulley system ) it won't work? I realize that it will bring the rpms down considerably but technically increase torque strength and I hope to not be in a hurry on any project I try to do?

What you have described is a speed reducer. It slows the machine down and multiplies torque. This is commonly used by leather workers on machines like the 111W155.

If you have a server motor it will work just fine with a speed reducer, but it is highly unlikely that a NPS will work very well.

The controller will be able to run the motor and do all it is supposed to do, other than reliably run a NPS.

If what you want is a speed reducer and a NPS, meh, not so much do they play well together.

Machines are normally set up so that the machine runs at 75% of the motor speed. When the motor is turning 2000RPM, the machine is making 1500 stitches per minute. With a NPS, the controller will have to wait no more than 1.33 motor revolutions to see a NPS signal from the machine. A soon as it sees the signal it stops the motor and the needle rests in the position you've set it to stop at.

Controllers are set up to stop the motor if the NPS doesn't send a signal within just a couple of motor revolutions. This allows for the installation of a smaller than normal pulley on the motor. The reason the controller is designed to stop the motor if it doesn't receive a timely signal from the NPS is so that the machine doesn't run away in the case of an NPS failure. Now, with a speed reducer, the motor may turn over 3, 4 or more times to turn the machine once. Sometimes the controller will only have to wait for less than a revolution of the motor to get a signal from the NPS on the machine and the needle positioner will work normally. At other times it may have to wait for three or more revolutions, which it will interpret as a failure to acquire a signal from the NPS. It will stop the motor to prevent a runaway condition, but the needle won't be positioned. If you were trying to stop at a turning point you'll have to take a stitch that you may not want to make to sink the needle for a pivot.

It's all rather in-the-weeds sort of stuff, but there you have it.

You pretty much have to show a sewing income with your GST # to get an account with any supplier in Canada. Shop kijiji first for materials etc...

So Souperdoo, your advice would be for me to replace the pulleys with originals, get a 750W servo motor and an NPS and that would put me in the best position to get going on this?